| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
307
   |
Posted - 2012.10.02 12:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Would be less dramatic changes as they were tier3 to begin with. Liking the close range brawler theme.
O.M.G. four mid vexors and ruptures are going to be super annoying, can't be arsed to do the math but reckon cpu should/could be used to mitigate most of that 
Maller Abaddonified, lovely. Not sure the cap increase is sufficient though, think it might need 100 more or so. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
307
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 10:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:...Of course making it a HAM ship rather than trying to keep it distinct from the Omen at all costs would be the better solution...
The HAM option shouldn't even be on the table, it is a Kingdom thing and has nothing to do with Amarr proper. Once you start down the path of breaking lore in the pursuit of balance/diversity you might as well be playing ":insertnameofgenericFPS: in Space".
The breakdown comes from the idea that all slots are equal which of course is not the case, far from it. Mids are infinitely more valuable than lows and highs simply due to all eWar using that one rack .. it is one of, if not the, primary reason for the Rust (and Gallente after ships revisions) dominance as the extra mid(s) increases tactical options immensely.
Adding drones to the Maller is dubious at best (lore wise) as is giving it more mids, ie. equal to Minmatar/Gallente/Caldari, the options for increasing its dps, applied or otherwise, dwindles.
Increase damage bonus to 7.5%/lvl or even 10%/lvl (could make it 10000% as it will still die horribly to neuts/frigates).
Give it the cap necessitated by the Abaddonification.
The beauty of the Amarr doctrine is that it is so damn simple. Powerful when exploited (triple sinks baby!) yet vulnerable/fragile as nothing else in game when facing a prepared foe (speed/size/neuts/TD) .. Amarr balances itself simply by being Amarr.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
307
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 10:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Three to five drones won't help much against experienced frigates, you need a fourth mid if that is the goal .. and that won't (and shouldn't) happen.
Nothing wrong with being vulnerable to a frigate as long as it has something worthwhile against larger stuff (ie. bring the pain!). That is the problem with proposed iteration, it has lowest or second lowest dependent on fit dps with no redeeming attributes. It will still be a glorified brick comparatively. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
308
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 20:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:Either dronebay or lose a low for a turret high to give it something to compete with other combat cruisers. 1600mm plate + ENAM + DCU II should still provide around 45k EHP using 2 HS + 6 turrets will give around 400dps with IN multi and 320 with Scorch @ 20km which is still lower than the other combat cruisers but has a niche in being all turret dps and good projection. Good tank/dps ratio too.
Problem I have with swapping low for a high is that it makes it very top heavy, thus restricting options. Increase dps by increasing the damage bonus.
Hate the whole "buffer everything!" paradigm with a vengeance and hope beyond hope that active tanking will once again make a comeback through mechanic/module changes .. CCP tried to address the shield side with the ASB (albeit without adequate testing  so by my reckoning I am not alone in my wish for more options.
For the record: Being all turret based and midslot deficient on top is not a niche and definitely not something to be desired (especially not slow tracking, low falloff lasers) as your target pool is minute compared to other ships. Without some sort of upside (dps, tracking, drones, midslots, speed, mass etc.) the prospects for a laser boat such as the Maller are very bleak indeed.
Feyrin wrote:... Can I think of another ship that is like this. Wait oh the zealot....
Equating Maller with the Zealot .. :notsureifserious:
Smidgen lighter, slower, half the range, worse tank, tighter fittings .. but you are right, they both lack drones so the comparison is of course valid
Would be sweet if it was actually given a range bonus, but then it would have either really atrocious dps or mediocre tanking capability as there are just not enough bonuses to go around. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
310
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 08:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Well, back in the days I had ALOT OF DREAMS...
Just watched that and they used a 1:4 logistics to Maller ratio (not counting the Carrier) .. hardly overpowered .. think of what the minimum numbers required might be compared to a Zealot/SFI/Legion AHAC fleet. It is a gimmick at best, reason why someone like PL can get away with it is probably because they'll never face anything remotely threatening due to their super blob on perpetual stand-by no matter what they do or where they are (or so the rumours go ).
Maller swarm has abysmal range (practically all ships in range of a single bomb!) and insanely cap sensitive (yes, even AB fits) which will get worse when bonuses are changed and you need a metric ton of them to make up for the crappy individual damage.
At any rate, balancing sub-caps to account for the blob scenario will inevitably ruin every other scenario as there are options available in blob-land that do not exist outside (bubbles, bombs, bridges et al.). Makes sense to do it when it comes to capitals but since we are bickering over cruisers ....
PS: Looking forward to seeing HAM Caracal Swarm videos post iteration .. those should be madly effective.
PPS: T1 logistics .. low'ish EHP, full size sigs, no resists and stuck in molasses (most of them anyway) .. yeah, they'll be a nuisance if exploited (read: spammed) but in 'regular' use they'll be a liability as dps/ewar is infinitely more important on the small scale.
Vexors are nasty as hell currently and will be more so with proposed changes. The amount of damage they can dump into you at close range is staggering .. pure dps tanks thanks to being able to abuse the snot out of suitcases due to higher structure.
But yeah, drone (gank) boats lose their advantage when numbers grow which is not necessarily a bad thing as long as alternatives exist which the revised Thorax more than represents.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
310
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 19:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kithian Hastos wrote:...Also don't forget that every time a drone boat would field one of those "overpowered" heavy ECM drones, it is reducing the heavy combat drones it can field. So it's potentially not simply a matter of "OMG crazy powered ECM drone and crazy damage", but more of a trade-off between the two.
That old argument
As long as EC-XXX drones are as good as they are, the abuse of them is a no brainer. They will always land at least one jam per fight (way more if toggled) and are thus essentially impervious to enemy retaliation which damage drones are not .. one practically needs a smartbomb to clear EC-XXX but add one of those and your whole fit will be walking with a limp.
The only two ways I see to make EC-XXX fit into Eve is to either remove them entirely or change them into lock-breakers instead of jammers
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
321
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 21:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP needs to sit down, decide on an approximate desired "effect" and crunch the numbers.
Frigates/Dessies f.ex. should not expect to be alive for long in medium+ fights regardless of support, their survival should come primarily from piloting.
- 200mm maximum at a high cost. 400's should be downright crippling.
Cruisers should not expect to live long in large+ fights regardless of support, their survival should come primarily from gang/fleet composition (ie. ewar, range options etc.) with piloting as a secondary.
- 800mm maximum at a high cost. 1600's should be downright crippling.
BC (depending on what is done to the class)/BS should not expect to survive in massive+ fights without support (note the difference from above), their survival should hinge on what can be done for them not by them (read: RR, eWar).
- No maximum, burn your grid if you want and don't trust your logistics. Good 'target' is 1x1600 for BC's and 2x1600 for BS.
* Adjust attributes of all extenders, plates and ships to fit whatever desired effect is settled upon.
* Rework local tank mechanics to allow for prolonged large and down fights when properly managed (read: 100% dps will lose 10% RR/ 90% dps).
* Add modules to take the place of buffer/active module that increases the benefit of remote tanks.
Bottomline:
Accept that solo pew is dead. We are too damn many online and have too damn many alts at any one time for it to be prudent to maintain that particular fantasy .. balancing anything to function 'solo' at this point will balloon out of control with numbers added.
Instead balance based on ship size in conjunction with 'viable'/'normal' engagements for said ship size. Include RR/eWar in the deliberations as we are getting T1 frigates/cruiser logistics as well as survivable eWar ditto plus a revision of the entire range so the landscape is going to change dramatically SoonGäó.
Final word: Say no to oversizing! |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
336
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 11:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:New changes, designed to solve some of the problems brought up so far:
Note that we've upped the mass of all the Combat cruisers in part to help keep them feeling distinct from the other cruisers..
How does adding drones to the Maller help keep it distinct from the drone heavy Omen?
Three lights are nigh useless, particularly with no spares and it makes it feel/smell like a generic solution. Moa got transformed into a massive tank that has to sacrifice said tank or damage to secure cap (inject or nos), why not let the Maller be the hammer to the Moa's anvil and increase its damage .. either by swapping to RoF or by adding 2.5%/lvl to current bonus.
As a pure gun boat it will be vastly different from the Omen and almost all other cruisers, it will have to sacrifice damage/tank/utility(mids) to secure cap and should generally just be a lot more "Amarr", ie. insanely good at that one thing at the cost of becoming vulnerable to a whole slew of counters.
PS/NB/In short: With speeds going up across the board (especially for frigs), pulses are rapidly becoming one trick ponies that has to rely on the sublime range of scorch as tracking is sub-par and few hulls have mids to alleviate it .. let them be the unwieldy hammers that we all know and love from being tackled with a flashlight (bringer of light, laser, holy Amarr .. get it? ) at its optimal!
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
343
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 11:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yankunytjatjara wrote:Have you perhaps considered the other half - boosting quad light beam lasers?...
Hope they consider my request instead and introduce a medium pulse gatling (and large for that matter)
Garviel Tarrant wrote:I still think the maller needs a Nos.....
Increase damage bonus so that damage potential is middling for the class when using only 4 guns and remove the superflous drones again. Gives it the ability to function as a sledgehammer in gangs or as a proper brawler solo/duo (nos) while keeping it nice and vulnerable to things that can abuse the poor'ish tracking of lasers. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
375
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 14:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Deerin wrote:...Maller is going to be plain bad at solo action but it will be good in gangs (esp with logi support).
Understatement of the year. It has what will probably the tightest of niches ever created in Eve, an effective engagement envelope of 5km (19-24km) with no hope in hell outside that except when someone is nice enough to sit still for it.
HPL tracking is quite horrible and no amount of tank will save you if you can't get rid of a damage source .. it is too narrow a niche if you ask me which is why I wanted it to have get a tad more cap, a sixth gun (or increased damage bonus) and forego the ridiculously easy to kill 3 light drones that no competitive PvP pilot will ever consider a threat (standard frig shield buffers will passive regen any damage from three gnats).
Essentially embrace the fact that it is to be used in gangs and make it unsurpassed in that role by making it into the equivalent of the wrath of God if ignored .. much like the Abaddon on BS scale .. missing one of those things sitting at 20+km is certain annihilation.
So far the only Amarr cruiser I am excited about is the Arbitrator (TDs will be godly), warming up to the Omen but still not there yet and had so hoped that the Abaddonification would make Mallers anvils one could throw at the enemy in the hopes they forgot to duck at the appropriate time and not some palsy bricks. |
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